Healing Childhood Trauma | Jessica Zemple
Episode # 23
This week on the podcast we have Jessica Zemple, a transformational coach, author and founder of Life Shucker.
Jessica’s documentary on her story with her father who suffered from Schizophrenia comes out on November 11, 2024 on Jessica’s YouTube page.
Jessica also has created a resource for building boundaries. This can be found at https://lifeshucker.com/building-boundaries/
“Our grit is what makes us beautiful.”
Summary
In this episode of Life After Trauma, host Jess Vanrose speaks with transformational coach Jessica Zemple about healing from childhood trauma. They explore the metaphor of 'shucking' to uncover one's true self, discuss various healing modalities, and emphasize the importance of self-awareness and compassion in the healing journey. Jessica shares her personal experiences and insights, including the impact of childhood trauma on adult relationships and the significance of community support. The conversation also touches on Jessica's upcoming documentary, 'Cracked', which focuses on her relationship with her father and the journey towards acceptance and love beyond trauma.
Takeaways
Healing is a journey that requires time and dedication.
Self-awareness is crucial in recognizing patterns from childhood trauma.
Compassion for oneself and others helps in healing.
Different modalities work for different people; find what resonates with you.
The Hoffman process can be a transformative experience.
Yoga can help ground and reconnect you with your body.
It's important to ask for help and support in your healing journey.
You are worth the investment in your healing.
Healing can be overwhelming; it's okay to take breaks.
There is always more to uncover and learn in the healing process.
“The only thing that shucks our shells open is love.”
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Healing and Transformation
02:34 The Pearl and the Shell: Understanding Trauma
05:28 Healing Modalities: The Hoffman Process and More
07:54 Recognizing Symptoms of Childhood Trauma
10:39 Self-Awareness and Breaking Patterns
12:53 Starting the Healing Journey
15:12 Finding Love and Acceptance Beyond Trauma
17:59 The Importance of Compassion in Healing
20:29 Creating a Supportive Environment
23:10 The Role of Community in Healing
25:32 The Documentary: Cracked and Its Message
28:28 Final Thoughts on Healing and Growth
“You are not your trauma.”
Transcript
Jessica Vanrose (00:00.872)
Welcome or welcome back to Life After Trauma. I'm your host Jess, a certified trauma informed life coach. If you're new to the podcast, we bring women together from around the world through conversations that will empower, support and inspire you on your healing journey. This week we have Jessica Zemple, a transformational coach, author and founder of Life Shucker. Today, Jessica and I will be discussing healing from childhood trauma.
Hi, Jessica, it's so nice to have you on the show today. Before we jump into today's topic, you have created a brand around a very specific and interesting analogy. Can you please share and explain the meaning behind your analogy of shucking?
Jessica Zemple (00:51.39)
Thank you. It all started with this idea that everybody's a pearl. And if you're not familiar with how the pearl is created, it's actually the grit inside the oyster. And I find that true for all of us is that our grit is actually what makes us beautiful and unique and precious. And so I love that part of the metaphor.
And then the added bonus is there's this shell around our pearl that we close in times of fear, totally natural and sometimes appropriate. But the problem is if we stay in our shell too long, it starts to get dark, isolating. We're disconnected from the world. And so we've got to shuck it open. And the only thing that shucks our shells open is love. And so it's all about
really just finding love in our lives. And there's so many different ways to shuck So whether it's self-love, loving others, acceptance, letting go of judgments, you name it. But there's so many things that we can do to help each other open up our shells and really, really shine our pearls. So that is the metaphor. And I love that you love it because I get to laugh every single day with like the metaphors, like everybody needs a good shuck and
Get shucked go shuck yourself, and it's endless.
Jessica Vanrose (02:19.06)
Yeah, I was, I think I watched one of your YouTube videos. I think it might have been your, your general like welcome or intro video where you're talking about it. And you're listing off some of those like catchphrases. And I was just laughing so much. Like, I love it very much. And we need a little bit of a laugh before we dive into today's topic. So
Jessica Zemple (02:40.57)
Thank you.
Jessica Zemple (02:46.089)
So.
Jessica Vanrose (02:47.31)
Here's the first question for you. When facing trauma as a child, we're not developed enough mentally to not identify with the trauma or grit in our lives. We unknowingly take it in and make it mean something about ourselves. Maybe that we're unlovable or we're too much and so on.
Jessica Zemple (02:48.853)
Okay.
Jessica Vanrose (03:16.248)
How do we as adults learn to separate that identity from who we truly are?
Jessica Zemple (03:26.314)
What a great question. And I think there's a lot of ways to do it. And the first is with awareness. I think just the conversation that we're having right now. So if somebody knows that they're not the grit, really, right? They are the pearl and the grit is just an experience that they're having in life. But it's a lot easier to say than do sometimes.
Often that can be with, you know, working with a therapist, working in self-help books, self-development books. For me personally, it just took a lot of time to unwind some of the programming I had adopted as a child. And you nailed it. know, mine was that I was unlovable or that I wasn't worthy. And really understanding that
the person that you're experiencing the trauma with also has something going on. They are not their story either. And so I think that really helped me with the experience I had with my father. So he suffered from schizophrenia. And when I started to see beyond the schizophrenia and see him as another soul, as another human, it helped me to really understand that
wow, he might have had trauma in his life, which may have created some of the experiences that I went through with him. And so there's a part of it, I think, to is compassion when we can offer ourselves compassion and other people compassion that helps us to kind of melt away the layers and the stories that we have attributed to different experiences. And then
carried as like a burden to ourselves. And yeah, so I don't know if that answers the question fully, but I think we could talk for weeks about that specific question and such a thoughtful way to ask it.
Jessica Vanrose (05:41.166)
Yeah, I'm sure we could talk for a long time about that. I love that you mentioned self compassion. That is a big thing for me that really helped me on my journey. So I also have trauma from my childhood. And similar to you, it was feeling unlovable, feeling like not enough, not worthy and learning to
really be compassionate with myself was a like a huge turning point. Yeah, there's like there's so many things so many healing modalities. I know that you have mentioned a bunch of them that you used. I think there was one there was one that I wasn't sure what it was. And I think you called it the Hoffman Hoffman technique. Is that right?
Jessica Zemple (06:36.65)
Yep, the Hockman process.
Jessica Vanrose (06:38.006)
Yes. Okay. Can you talk about that and the other healing modalities too?
Jessica Zemple (06:42.718)
Absolutely. So the Hoffman process is an experience and it's in the US. I don't know that it's in Canada yet, but what you do is you go there for about a week and you completely disconnect from the world. So no cell phones, no computers. And it is like 15 years of therapy in one week. And it was just such a profound experience.
What I really took away from it was this idea that we learn different ideas and behaviors from the people around us, especially our parents or the people that cared for us growing up. And the beauty of that idea though is if we learned it, we can unlearn it. And so we spent a lot of time in that experience looking at
Jessica Vanrose (07:32.184)
Right.
Jessica Zemple (07:39.026)
what I adopted, what I chose to believe about the world and really challenged those beliefs because that thinking is what drives my emotions and then my choices and my behaviors and all of those things. And so it was so empowering to know, wait, I can just change the story? I can change that idea and it changes everything. So.
It was such a powerful experience. I highly recommend it to everyone. There is a cost to it, but they do scholarships as well. if, you know, if somebody doesn't have the financial resources, definitely still try and apply for one of the scholarships because it is so worth it. So that is the Hoffman process. And yeah, such a, such a magical, uplifting, enlightening experience.
Jessica Vanrose (08:33.048)
That definitely sounds like it. mean, even just having, did you say it was a week long? Even just having that amount of time away from your phone, even just your phone alone, like that would make a difference in itself. So yeah, that's incredible. Did you find other modalities really helpful for you?
Jessica Zemple (08:57.042)
I have found so many that I love. Yoga was probably the first one, You too? I had no idea. I thought I was going into it for fitness. And I had some really great instructors that were very spiritual to start with. they taught me about emotions because one of the things that I...
Jessica Vanrose (09:01.666)
Yes, I love yoga. Yes.
Jessica Vanrose (09:09.314)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (09:19.918)
Mm.
Jessica Zemple (09:23.252)
had done is I had suppressed a lot of my emotions because my father had a lot of rage and anger. And so I was afraid that I was going to become like him. instead of learning how to deal with them in a healthy way, I tried suppressing them. And we all know that doesn't work very well. It comes out sideways and all these different ways. And so I would, you know, I would explode in unexpected ways and it was always embarrassing.
not my favorite part of my life, but what happened is that my yoga teachers started to teach me that emotions were natural and that anger is just telling you something and it's really guiding you in a new way and it just changed everything in that regard. So yoga, and then also I love sound healing, that one because
That one's a little more passive because you just get to sit there and lay while these sound bowls just open up different energy centers within you and allow things to flow. It's so beautiful, so powerful. I now do silent retreats as well. And I wouldn't recommend that to somebody who's just starting on their healing journey because it can be pretty intense.
And I will say though, if you are called to it, trust that even if you are new, but go to a retreat center that there are guides that can really, really help you deal with what's coming up because it, it sitting in silence and meditating in that kind of environment for that long can bring up some really powerful things. And if you don't necessarily have the tools,
It can be a little scary at times, but also really magically mysterious and wonderful as well, which is why I keep doing it. But I just want to caution people that I would say for my experience, silent retreats was a little bit more advanced. so starting with yoga or the Hoffman process where you are moving into things a little bit more gently is a great, great place to start. So those are some of my favorites. Of course,
Jessica Zemple (11:47.816)
life coaches, that's what I do, that's what you do. So if you find somebody that you really resonate with and trust and they have the tools to help you see life in new ways, experience life in new ways, that's always a good way to go as well. So, so many different modalities.
Jessica Vanrose (12:06.956)
Yeah. Yeah, yoga was also for me, like the first thing that really started to shift things for me. And I, I honestly didn't really know what I was getting into. I think for you, I think like you, it was also that I was trying it for fitness. And
And then it was just like, whoa, what is this? What is this feeling? Like, it's so peaceful. And for me, it was that it helped me come back to my body. It helped me become grounded. And like, I learned how to be present. And that is so powerful. I'm just going to take a sip of water.
for a second, I figured I'll tell you, because then I can just cut this out. Sorry. Okay. So sorry. So, okay, I'll just go right into the next question. Sometimes it's hard to see or realize that something you deal with on a daily basis is a symptom of childhood trauma.
Jessica Zemple (13:02.965)
Yeah.
Jessica Zemple (13:20.639)
Okay.
Jessica Vanrose (13:30.326)
It could be you don't know what you don't know, or it's something you've lived with for so long that you don't realize that things could be different. An example that comes to mind is anxiety. So like if you've been anxious for most of your life due to childhood trauma, your anxiety may just feel like your baseline state. So in the name of bringing awareness, like you were mentioning at the beginning,
to these potential symptoms, can you share with us common ways that childhood trauma can affect our adult lives and how it might actually appear in our life?
Jessica Zemple (14:14.475)
Wow, what a great question. The first thing that comes to mind for me was my relationships. And there's been layers and layers that I've uncovered and experienced through the relationships and
Jessica Vanrose (14:23.246)
Mm.
Jessica Zemple (14:33.62)
What stands out the most is I felt really comfortable in volatile relationships because my dad was always up and down. And so that's what was familiar to me. And when I actually had a healthy relationship, it felt unsafe and it honestly felt a little bit boring too.
because it was predictable and I was actually being treated with kindness and respect most of the time, all the time, you know.
Jessica Vanrose (15:12.514)
and you don't have that roller coaster of emotions.
Jessica Zemple (15:16.82)
Yes, exactly. And so I didn't realize that I was attracting in people just like my father. One of my favorite jokes is, you know, they say we attract in our parents and, you know, so we can heal the patterns and the family lineage and energy and stuff like that. like, why couldn't it have been somebody like...
George Clooney for me, know, or for you younger people there. I'm sure there's somebody more famous that I'm just not aware of, but I always laugh like, great, I got to date my dad over and over and over again. yeah, but really the volatility of the relationship, it was familiar. And that's something that I've learned too, is just because something's familiar doesn't mean it's right.
And so that is something I always lean into as well. It's like, am I leaning into something just because I know it? I would say some other things for me specifically. I have a really hard time with locking doors and shutting doors because there were so many doors slamming in the house, I think. And so...
Jessica Vanrose (16:30.295)
No.
Jessica Zemple (16:39.2)
So I'm always very like I'm very gentle in closing the door and and I'm still working on that one to be honest not that Not that it has a tremendous effect on anybody but me and even me it's pretty subtle which is why I probably haven't spent too much time working on it but but it's noticeable and the other thing about doors for me is
I always have to lock the front door because my dad would break into our house a lot. And so, so when my partner, you know, is looking at me like, why are you locking the door? it's fortunately, my partner now he's great. And he gives me the curiosity and the compassion and really wants to understand why I do things, which is so great. Whereas I've had partners before that really kind of
insulted me or joked with me about it and that just doesn't feel great. So those are a couple for me. Another quirk that I have discovered is I always have to have my back to the wall. So if I'm in a restaurant, I have to be able to see what's coming at me and I'm working on that one. I
I'll put myself in a chair that feels really uncomfortable. And then I really just remind myself I'm safe. I am safe. I have a really strong intuition. So if I'm not safe, I will know or the people around me actually can help too. And so it's a lot of self-talk to reduce the severity of that effect in my life, if you will.
Jessica Vanrose (18:10.188)
Yeah.
Jessica Zemple (18:32.288)
I'm trying to think of some other obvious ones. Those are the ones that stand out right now.
Jessica Vanrose (18:38.86)
Yeah, what I'm wondering, it sounds like it's really just a lot of being self aware and like knowing like the door situation for you, right? That's probably very specific to you and your circumstances. And so other people will have things like that. And so it's really being aware. And I guess what I'm wondering is how do you think like when
when we are so incredibly familiar with something that it just, I don't want to say it feels comfortable, but it feels normal. How do you think we can break past that barrier to become aware that it might actually be something that's holding us back?
Jessica Zemple (19:33.32)
It's been helpful for me to have other people reflecting that to me. So whether it's a therapist or a coach and or even a partner as well, because the, you know, if I'm describing a situation to my coach, she can say, or he can say, Hey, wait a minute. Like, you know that not everybody thinks that way. And, then all of sudden the light bulb will go off, which is why it's so helpful to have somebody else where you can trust.
Jessica Vanrose (19:55.886)
All
Jessica Zemple (20:03.282)
and share openly and vulnerably because they can actually show you and say, hey, this is not the way everybody would handle this situation. And with the right partner, I think that's possible too. And fortunately, my partner now, he's great at that. He's like, well, not everybody thinks that they have to do X, Y, or Z. Is that because of something from growing up?
or some, you know, and we just get curious and I do the same for him as well. And so I think it's helpful to get out of your shell a little bit in a way that feels safe, right? Because especially for people that have experienced trauma, it's hard to, it can be hard. I don't wanna suggest it has to be hard, but it can be hard to open up. And so find the spaces that do feel okay for you. And,
keep finding a new therapist or a new coach if the first one is not a good fit. There's so many wonderful people that might be a better fit out there too. So don't give up either. Like it's possible. And I think Jessica too, that's like one thing to know for anyone on the healing journey is there is something on the other side and you might not know what it is or how you're going to get there.
but just take one little step and another little step and eventually you'll look back and you'll be shocked at how far you've come and hopefully feel lighter and happier and more fulfilled because of it. But just know that there's more freedom out there. And I even, even having done all this work for years, a lot of healing.
I know there's still more available to me, which is what keeps me going. I'm like, what else am I going to unlock? So yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (22:04.596)
Yes, I completely agree with that. I think back sometimes on my past and all that I have been through and it's like, it feels like a completely different life. yeah, some days I'm like, how did I get here? Which is an amazing feeling. But also it's like, yeah, that did not come quickly.
Jessica Zemple (22:25.92)
you
Jessica Vanrose (22:33.642)
It took time. It took time. It took dedication, like to yourself. And it doesn't mean that like it's definitely a journey. It's not linear, like there will be setbacks. But when those setbacks happen, you pick yourself up and you keep going. childhood trauma.
can be very overwhelming to face and to try to heal as an adult. What do you recommend as the starting point for unraveling the trauma and beginning this journey?
Jessica Zemple (23:21.214)
I feel like a few of the things we've talked about are helpful. It's really leaning into the idea that you can do it, that there is the help you need. And the first thing is asking. And sometimes that can be the hardest part for people. And asking could look a number of different ways.
Jessica Vanrose (23:21.838)
you
Jessica Zemple (23:50.688)
It could be that you want somebody to go to a yoga class with you, or maybe you need some financial assistance to try therapy, or yeah, there's just so many ways to get help. And maybe it's just to go to coffee with a girlfriend or a loved one and...
sharing just a little bit. You don't have to share everything either. What I found really helpful when I was starting to work through some of the trauma was one person told me, it will never be as bad as when it originally happened.
Jessica Vanrose (24:39.726)
Mm.
Jessica Zemple (24:41.468)
And so that helped me have the courage to lean into it a little bit more. And I have found that to be true. It's actually in my head where I made it worse than actually speaking it out loud because I believe by sharing it, whether it's journaling,
Jessica Vanrose (24:50.574)
Hmm.
Jessica Zemple (25:06.752)
you know, and something that nobody ever sees or sharing it with somebody to witness, I believe once we get it out, that starts to dissolve some of the imprints and the pain and the suffering that we've been holding. so, yeah, so starting there is asking for help. I remember to, I would never spend money on myself because I have this worthiness
story. But if anybody in my family ever needed anything, I would be the first one to help them. And I really want to encourage anyone listening is that you are worth it. You're worth that investment. You're worth that commitment. You deserve to be the number one priority. And when you do that, you can actually help everybody even more because you're taking care of yourself. And so you
there's more that you can do after taking care of yourself. So those would be some of the ideas. I do want to be careful. I don't want to romanticize healing in any way. Like you said, it takes a commitment and it can be hard. And I have cried a lot of tears. I have shut down. I've had weeks where I...
maybe just ate some pizza because I didn't want to deal with whatever it was that was coming up and I was numbing myself out. And that's okay. We all have something that numbs us out. Some people have healthier numbers than others, but I have zero judgments for anybody that has an addiction and.
And I just, again, offer that invitation of being aware. When do you turn to alcohol? When do you turn to cigarettes or drugs or social media or working more or whatever it might be for you? And not to use that to dig yourself deeper into a hole because you're judging yourself for that. Goes back to compassion. Find some compassion for yourself and then ask.
Jessica Vanrose (27:27.926)
Yeah, for sure. I was going to say so for so one, if, if people do not have the means I like, for me, like I had mentioned before, I think yoga is such a great starting place. Because when we've experienced trauma, if you have PTSD, you might be like out of your body. And so like,
getting back into your body, getting grounded is probably the number one place to start because you can't like, you can journal and that's a great option. But I feel like until you're really present, those changes can't really take hold. I don't know if you would agree with me on that. And so like if somebody doesn't have the means for like a yoga membership,
There are so many free options on YouTube for yoga videos, which are amazing. I love yoga with Adrienne. I don't know if you've ever done any of hers. No. So yeah, her channel is great. And then yes, if you don't have the means for therapy, then journaling, like Jessica mentioned, is a fantastic option just to get it out.
You have to you have to get it out. And I feel like when we can actually take the time, sometimes for me, it's writing and sometimes for me, probably because I'm a podcaster, sometimes it's for me that I have to talk it out. So in that case, I will load up or open up my notes app and I will just sit there for however long I need to talking to my notes app. But like it helps you. I feel like it helps you notice patterns.
And then once we notice those patterns, we can decide if that is something that's serving us or not. And if it's something that we want to change or not.
Jessica Zemple (29:35.496)
These are great.
Jessica Vanrose (29:36.238)
Yeah, yeah. So, very cool. You have a documentary coming out. And I would love to hear about your documentary and just some of your story.
Jessica Zemple (29:45.389)
Me too!
Jessica Zemple (29:55.328)
Thank you. It's called Cracked. It's a short documentary and it is the story of my father and me. And the focus is really on finding love and acceptance beyond the trauma that I experienced. And it has been such a heart-filling project that has stretched me in some unexpected ways, but it was really beautiful because we
I had a sense that my father was close to dying and we got some filming in and he did pass away. So for me, it's been beautiful to have these videos of us and really just have some of these memories. And he was so excited for us to put something out into the world to open up the conversations about schizophrenia, mental illness.
finding love and acceptance. And so I'm super excited and totally nervous and scared about it coming out. And it's coming out November 11th. So depending on when whoever is watching this, it'll be on my YouTube channel, Jessica Zemple. And yeah, it's just my whole goal is really to spark conversations and
It's not specific to people that have schizophrenia in their lives. It's about anybody that has a fractured relationship, anybody who's been through trauma. And what is it, who are we beyond our story? Who is the other person beyond their story? Kind of like where we started the conversation. And so I'm hopeful that it inspires more healing and...
just more compassion in their world.
Jessica Vanrose (31:51.034)
I love that and I am very excited to see it when it comes out. I will leave the YouTube channel linked below in the notes. I'm wondering how, so you mentioned that it's about being able to find love and kindness, I believe you said, is that right? and kindness? Acceptance, acceptance. So can you give us a little sneak peek at
Jessica Zemple (32:11.752)
Acceptance. Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (32:19.561)
how you did that.
Jessica Zemple (32:22.548)
Yeah, so it's everything we've been talking about. You know, it's really healing and getting to the place that I really knew that I was not my story. And my dad was not the schizophrenia. And all these different modalities we've been talking about and all the different mentors I've had.
Jessica Vanrose (32:23.106)
Thanks.
Jessica Zemple (32:51.676)
and time in nature and for me connection to source or spirit or you know whatever people's beliefs are all of that has been part of it and
Yeah, it's my love story for my father. And I've just learned so much through this journey. Even things like the schizophrenia, I really wonder if he actually had a superpower because he would go off into these other worlds. And when he came back, he was very disturbed and agitated and angry and
You know, I'm really curious that if we start to look at schizophrenia in new ways, how might that change things for the person that's experiencing it, for the loved ones? There's such a ripple effect with the an experience like that. So we'll see. Yeah, so the sneak peek, unfortunately it's only 20 minutes, so I don't get to share everything in it. Maybe there's going to be a longer version.
where I do get more into all the details, but now you all have some of the details here because of everything we've been talking about. There's no way I could have done this film 10 years ago. And if you're watching it and you think that that happened overnight, it didn't, because I don't want you to think
Jessica Vanrose (34:22.254)
Hmm.
Jessica Zemple (34:34.356)
that you're failing in the healing journey at all. It's been a lifetime of revelations and inspiration and dedication to finding a new way. yeah, so keep going. Whoever's listening and if you're just starting, start with one small step.
Jessica Vanrose (34:50.51)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (34:57.806)
Yeah, for sure. The first 20 years of my life were filled with hard times and trauma. And I started my healing journey around 25. I'm now 36. So, you know, it has been 11 years on this journey, and I'm not at the end.
Jessica Zemple (35:24.704)
That's
Jessica Vanrose (35:25.454)
There is still so much that I can do. But there are I do think it's really important like you've mentioned a few times, I think it's really important that people know that it's normal to take breaks. It can be a very overwhelming process to heal and
you know, there were there were a few times where, you know, a year or two would go by and I really didn't. I really didn't focus on healing anything at all. I was just living and that was okay. And I still got to a beautiful place. So, you know, it's not about racing to a finish line. It's about listening to yourself and your body and
trusting that you know what's best for you. And if you need a break right now, that's okay to take it and be compassionate with yourself about taking it. Don't let that cause you more judgment. I just wanted to add that in there. Thank you. Do you have any final thoughts or words of advice?
Jessica Zemple (36:38.346)
so brilliantly said
Jessica Zemple (36:47.296)
Well, I just appreciate what you're doing and it takes a lot of courage to put yourself out here and use your experiences to help other people. And so I just want to thank you and thank you for this opportunity to share my journey. And if anybody listening here has questions, like I'm, I
want to help. So let me know how I can help. I've got tons of resources on my website, but also just ask and whether it's a resource or time together. I just want you to know that you're not alone and you can do it. If I can do it and Jessica can do it, I know everyone listening can do it too. And yeah, it's worth it. It may be hard, but it's worth it.
Jessica Vanrose (37:40.436)
It is so worth it. And same to you though, like creating that documentary, I know you said just a few minutes ago that you were terrified about putting it out and I totally understand that. I remember the first time I, when I was first uploading a podcast and I had, I think three or five episodes or something like that recorded.
Jessica Zemple (37:44.02)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (38:09.92)
and I was sitting there, everything was set to go and I just had to hit publish and it would be out in the world. And it was, like I almost had a panic attack right there. Just trying to hit that button. But I mean, I feel like that's also a great analogy for healing in general and life in general. Like you had mentioned before, kind of getting out of your comfort zone and
It is, we are going to constantly be coming up to things where we're pushing that limit, but we know that it's a limit that needs to be pushed. life becomes, like you mentioned, so much freer and so expanded. It's beautiful.
Jessica Zemple (39:02.302)
Yeah. And then you maybe get to stop dating your dad or your mom.
Jessica Vanrose (39:05.774)
Yes, please.
Jessica Zemple (39:11.881)
You
Jessica Vanrose (39:12.29)
Well, thank you so much, Jessica, for coming on. This has been wonderful.
Jessica Zemple (39:17.984)
Thank you too, I so appreciate you.
Jessica Vanrose (39:21.032)
I appreciate you. Thank you.
