Navigating Relationships After Trauma | Karen Robinson
Episode # 24
Karen Robinson, LCSW, is a service driven social worker, therapist, and coach with 24 years of clinical experience. Karen received both her BSW and MSW from the University of Maine, where she is originally from. Karen is a genuine, authentic, compassionate provider. Her specialties are trauma recovery, anxiety, and depression. In her free time, Karen enjoys reading, writing, and spending time with her family.
You can contact Karen on her website at www.healthrivedream.com.
“You can change that tape, and it’s by feeding ourselves these positive counters.”
Summary
In this episode of 'Life After Trauma', host Jessica Vanrose speaks with Karen Robinson, a trauma recovery expert, about the complexities of relationships after trauma. They discuss the importance of self-care, building self-worth, recognizing red and green flags in relationships, and the significance of understanding personal triggers versus intuition. Karen shares practical advice on how to navigate the healing journey and emphasizes the need for compatibility in relationships. The conversation concludes with resources for further healing and support.
Takeaways
Healing after trauma is a unique journey for everyone.
Basic self-care is crucial when starting the healing process.
Setting goals in various life areas can aid recovery.
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) can help identify harmful patterns.
Affirmations can be powerful tools for building self-worth.
Recognizing red flags in relationships is essential for safety.
Intuition plays a key role in discerning relationship dynamics.
Compatibility in values and life goals is important for lasting relationships.
Open communication about deal breakers can prevent future issues.
Resources like workshops and podcasts can provide additional support.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Healing After Trauma
02:59 Picking Up the Pieces After Trauma
05:33 Building Self-Worth and Breaking Cycles
08:31 Understanding Red Flags and Green Flags
11:07 Differentiating Triggers from Red Flags
19:27 Identifying Compatibility in Relationships
25:47 Final Thoughts and Resources
Transcript
Jessica Vanrose (00:01.172)
Welcome or welcome back to life after trauma. I'm your host Jess, a certified trauma informed life coach. If you're new to the podcast, we bring women from around the world together through conversations that will empower support and inspire you on your healing journey. This week on the podcast, we have Karen Robinson, a licensed clinical social worker, therapist and coach. She is a trauma recovery expert and a trauma survivor herself.
Today, Karen and I will be discussing relationships after trauma, how we can break cycles, heal, and different red flag and green flag behaviors. Hi, Karen. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I am very much looking forward to our conversation. And if it's okay with you, I'm going to just dive right in deep with the first question. Okay. of course.
Karen Robinson (00:52.015)
Absolutely. Thank you for having
Jessica Vanrose (00:56.928)
When we've experienced trauma in a past relationship, whether that be cheating, abuse, gaslighting, et cetera, how do we pick up the pieces after and move on?
Karen Robinson (01:13.631)
It's a beautiful question and it's not a one size fits all, unfortunately. So I will give some general suggestions, but remember as a listener that all my suggestions may not work and you may need to tweak and that's okay. You're a unique person, you're not a cookie. So I try not to do cookie cutter in my individual work with clients. When someone is first coming,
out of any kind of abusive situation. I consider that a loss, like grief and loss. And so what I tell people, your job when you are in the throes of loss, where it's just difficult to get out of bed, like your functioning is really low. You're just like, it feels like you've been hit by a brick wall over and over. I encourage my clients to just worry about the basics. Like, are you...
getting enough nutrition? Like, do we need to get you on some sort of supplemental protein shake just to kind of keep you going? Are you getting enough water? Like, let's look at how much water that you're getting each day. What is your sleep looking like right now? And maybe you need an intervention around sleep. If it's been three days or more without sleep, it's time to see the doctor to get more help, even if it's just temporary help.
And then lastly, some sort of movement is good, even if it's hard to out of bed, just going outside for five minutes. Just walk around the block, get some vitamin D, get some movement in your body. So just basic basics when you're first starting out, you know, to healing. And then as you start to get better, I recommend setting goals recommend setting goals in the...
core areas of your life or pillars. I call them the six pillars and the six pillars that I use are your physical health, taking a look at what a goal you want for that, your mental health, your emotional health, your spirituality, your other relationships. We don't want those to tank, right? And then energetically, like what's your energy level? Do you know how to get rid of negative
Karen Robinson (03:36.831)
toxic energy around you. Do you know how to affirm yourself on an energetic level? So that's kind of what I teach in my work.
Jessica Vanrose (03:46.47)
I really like that. And I know when I had just gone through my breakup last year, it a big breakup. that like the going for walks and doing yoga were two of the things that I think helped me the most in the beginning because they were so like accessible. I don't want to say easy because it was not easy to get myself to do it.
but it was accessible and it actually made a difference after each time that I did it. So I love that advice very much.
Karen Robinson (04:24.797)
And I love that you say yoga because in my pillars work, yoga fits in most of those pillars. So if you pick something for movement, that's a beautiful one to try. And another thing I didn't say the basics that probably should be one is some sort of grounding activity like deep breathing or somatic movements can also be really helpful.
Jessica Vanrose (04:35.587)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (04:48.118)
Yeah, definitely. And the reason why I love yoga is because it, like you said, it covers off so many different areas. Like, if I don't have time to do a meditation that day, doing my yoga kind of checks that box because it at least makes me present. So yeah, yoga is amazing.
Karen Robinson (05:07.448)
It is, it really is.
Jessica Vanrose (05:09.486)
So because traumatic relationships can diminish our sense of self-worth and confidence, it's common to go from one abusive situation to another. How do we build up our self-worth and break that cycle?
Karen Robinson (05:29.673)
Really great questions. You must have been doing this for a minute. So for that question, I think one of the first steps, but let me back up and say this. Even though cognitive behavioral therapy is not an evidence-based treatment for trauma, it is evidence-based for anxiety, depression, and addiction behaviors.
And what I find is my trauma survivors, including myself, we struggle with anxiety, depression, and addictive behaviors. So I think CBT is a really good modality in helping build yourself up. Because one of the first things it teaches you is look for the patterns in your behavior. Like what are you doing that's attracting people? Or what are you accepting?
Jessica Vanrose (06:13.902)
Mm-hmm.
Karen Robinson (06:21.403)
into your life that if you felt better about yourself, you would not be accepting. So taking a hard look at your patterns, you know, what's similar about each relationship that you've been in that has, you know, been toxic or abusive. It's important to look at that. And then looking at the way you think about yourself. Do you believe that you're worthy of love? Do you believe that you're worthy of being treated respectfully? Do you believe that you are worthy of happiness or joy?
And so what I love about CBT, it takes your thought process. It teaches you how to analyze them. And there's like five analytical skills that I use. And then you can decide after you analyze, like, OK, this belief I have about myself is not helpful. In fact, it's damaging me. And then I teach people how to replace that negative belief.
with a healthier thought that's believable with practice. Because you gotta remember when we have a lower self-worth, a lot of times it's because of what people have said to us in our past, whether that's family members, past relationships, so it's like a tape that plays over and over. And what some of us don't realize is that we can change that tape, and it's by feeding ourselves these positive counters or affirmations. And they do work.
They take time and practice.
Jessica Vanrose (07:51.476)
Okay, because I was going to say I know that there's a lot of doubt out there about affirmations. So it just takes consistently doing it. I have Yeah, let's go into that.
Karen Robinson (08:02.599)
okay. I do have a cheat sheet on that, right? So obviously the course Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or the modality takes a while, but a cheat sheet if you are eager to start working on your thoughts right away is write down the affirmations that you want to believe about yourself that you currently do not believe. Like it could be I am lovable, I am worthy.
and keep them under 10. You know, I am improving every day or improving on the daily. I am abundant in every way is one of my favorites. And so you take these affirmations and you post them everywhere is one hack. Your refrigerator, your microwave, your bathroom mirror, your dashboard, inside your purse, your desktop wallpaper, your phone wallpaper, you put it everywhere.
And then when you wake up in the morning, let it be the first thing you see. Like when you open your eyes in the morning, jump out of bed like Tigger, especially if you're depressed, this is a good exercise. Jump out, pretend you're, just pretend you're Tigger. Get in the mirror and start saying them in a confident voice, ground your feet, make sure your posture is bold. Project your voice and say them as confidently as possible.
one time, two times, three times. They don't take long. Do it again at lunch. You know, if you're around people, you can just do them in your head, you know, or go to the bathroom or your car. And then before you go to sleep at night, let it be the last thing you see before you sleep. Now, again, if you have cards or you're seeing it and can touch it and you're saying it, you're using all of your senses. So it's kinesthetic learning.
the tactile, you're seeing it, you're hearing it, you can touch it, I said that already, you're grounding yourself. So the only thing is missing is like a smell. So I guess you could use essential oils as you're doing them. And then if you're using like your senses, that helps you learn it more quickly. And again, if you're religiously three times a day, and as you think about it, my, my,
Jessica Vanrose (10:16.078)
Hmm.
Karen Robinson (10:29.503)
research on this, I use research loosely because I'm not writing up papers about it, is that before 90 days most people will notice the shift in their thoughts. Like they'll gradually move to having those healthier thoughts instead of those negative thoughts because they got in the habit of using them. And I did, when I worked with the Department of Defense and I did,
Jessica Vanrose (10:49.784)
Nah.
Karen Robinson (10:57.215)
CBT with combat vets, I would, and it wasn't all combat vets, it was a mixed group. Some had military sexual trauma and other types of trauma in the group. I would give them a before test midway through and at the end, these were surveys that would measure their anxiety, depression, and PTSD symptoms. And there was an 80 % reduction or more in their symptoms with that program. And part of what I taught them is that little
cheat sheet that I shared with your guests.
Jessica Vanrose (11:30.474)
That's amazing. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. And I do love that idea of getting all of your senses involved in that, because I have not heard of that before. So I think that that will be very helpful to the listeners. When we decide that we're ready to start dating again, how can we differentiate between
red flags with a potential new partner or if it's an unhealed wound in us.
Karen Robinson (12:09.215)
There's this beautiful book I love. I don't love the title, but it's called The Idiot's Guide to Healthy Relationships. And it does a great job. I know idiot isn't like the last thing you want to. But anyway, getting past the Exactly. Just get past the title, because it's a series of books like The Computers and all that. And so I like to say.
Jessica Vanrose (12:17.582)
Okay.
Jessica Vanrose (12:24.704)
If it's helpful though.
Karen Robinson (12:36.699)
my past relationships is kind of like kissing a lot of frogs before I found somebody that's healthy for me. And you know, some of us learn the hard way instead of the easy way. We, you know, we try relationships, we get married, we rebound, we do all the things that we know. Like, that's not working. So I use that book a lot and I've used it with clients. And what I did before I started dating again, before I remarried,
is I made a list of my red flags, yellow flags, and green flags, and really spent some time and energy around it. And thinking about what happened in past relationships that didn't work for me. So for example, I noticed that somebody I was with had started smoking, and I'm like, okay, that's a no for me. Like I can't stand the smell, I can't breathe. So no negotiation. If you're a smoker, I can't date you, period. Red flag.
You know, and an example of a yellow flag, because before I remarried, I was divorced and I had one biological child and one adopted child. So it'd be like hypocrisy to want a partner maybe with no children. So I was like, okay, a yellow flag is if they have children, because I don't want to be an instant green flag, because what if they have six kids?
or eight kids, like I'm a no on that, right? Like I have a limit on what I can handle. So, you know, the number of kids was like the yellow thing, but if they had one or two, you know, that's a green, that's a go. And so looking at what works about your personality, looking at what works with, or what works and what didn't work in past relationships is really the best way to do it.
And also looking at, let's say that you have a history of alcoholism. We hear all the time, you shouldn't date people in AA. And it's so hard for people to not listen to that advice because when you're in AA with other people, you have these bonds, you have so much in common. But that advice is still really good because if one of you relapses,
Karen Robinson (15:01.501)
the chance is the other will also relapse. So it's not about people in AA are bad people or you shouldn't trust them. It's about, that's a weak area for you if you're in recovery. And so it may be healthier for you to have a partner who doesn't have that history. Things like that, yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (15:19.338)
Right, that makes sense. Yeah, so I remember the... Okay, so like my past dating history, my last partner that I had, we had a wonderful relationship. But before him, I never really had a great relationship. And between my last one...
and like the one before that. I left a period of a very long time. I think it was, I think it was seven years that I didn't date anybody and I was just focusing on myself and not that listeners have to do that, but that's just what I needed. So when I first started seeing my last partner, I
had a lot of moments in the very beginning where I was still getting to know him, but things would come up for me. And it's like, I think maybe it was because I had, I had done so much healing and I was, I was very nervous of getting into another bad relationship. And so things would kind of like,
trigger. And I that's where my question came from is because I was never certain if it was, is it me that's just being triggered by something that's really because of my past, and not actually a red flag. And so I mean, I love your idea of writing the list of red flags.
And actually my next question for you is very much related to that. But I'm wondering if maybe we can touch a little bit more on the part of like the the feeling in us that's like, is it is it is it me? Do you know what I mean?
Karen Robinson (17:31.855)
Say a little more about that, yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (17:33.716)
Yeah, so like, is it that feeling of like, is this just my issue? Like me being triggered from my past? Or is it something that I actually need to be concerned about?
Karen Robinson (17:52.617)
Yeah, that can be a tough one, especially if we've been burned a lot, you know? And so I have a couple pieces of advice or suggestions around that, you know, and I think a lot of it depends on what the situation is. But one thing is I would give people the benefit of the doubt at the beginning, because if they're really toxic or not the right person,
Jessica Vanrose (17:55.886)
Mm-hmm.
Karen Robinson (18:21.979)
let's say they lied to you and you're suspicious, it comes out in the wash. Like if they lie to you once, they're going to lie to you two, three, four, you know, and you're going to figure that out really quickly. And so it means like giving them the benefit of the doubt at the beginning, but not allowing that to continue. Right. Also, I think it's really important to listen to our intuition.
And with the intuition, sometimes that's still hard to figure out. it OK? Is this me feeling triggered or is this my inner wisdom? And so I just recommend getting really quiet and asking your body, you know, or whatever your belief is. Maybe if you have a belief in a higher power, asking your higher power that lives within you. Hey, I'm suspicious. What should I be looking for? Or. What what's
really bothering me right now in this situation, what's going on? And just listen. You and you might have to ask yourself a few times until you can really trust your intuition. But most of the time it doesn't give us the wrong advice. It's usually pretty accurate. know? Sometimes you just know. You just know.
Jessica Vanrose (19:37.357)
Yeah.
Yes, definitely. I've had those situations where it's, I very much trust my intuition. It's like, you know, you know, when it is not a right fit. And in this last relationship at the beginning, I was just talking about that is exactly what I did. So I took time whenever something would come up.
I would pause and I would go inward and figure out exactly what it was that was bothering me. And I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Why is that so hard to say? I gave him the benefit of the doubt and we proceeded. in my mind, it was just always like, at least I'm being aware because in my previous relationships, I was just jumping in.
I wasn't really paying attention to what was necessarily going on in the beginning. I was definitely not listening to my intuition. Definitely not. So this was already like an improvement from my previous relationships and it ended up being a wonderful relationship. So I very much agree with that advice. While we're kind of going to wrap this up here, I'm wondering if we can talk about
a list of red flags. I know it has to be very general. But like red flag behaviors and green flags that maybe we should be like prioritizing.
Karen Robinson (21:18.131)
Yeah, like you said, it's, I mean, there could be some general things, but really you want to look at your specific needs and wants and what fits for you, you know? And so I, some green flags, I think is someone that knows who they are. And so this is someone that is, this depends on your age too, right?
There's not many young 20 year olds that have everything all figured out. So let's say you're, we'll go with an average age just for the sake of this discussion. So let's say you're 30 and you're past the 20s and you're not quite 40, but you are a little more settled in your career at this point. You probably will be best served a green flag with.
somebody else that has the same level of education, same level of work experience. And even though I used to believe a long time ago, love is love. It doesn't matter because nothing or he is everything. It shouldn't matter. In a perfect world, it wouldn't, but it's not a perfect world. And I have dated many people that had less than I had.
And it was an insecurity on their end, right? And which would cause problems. And also they maybe didn't have some of the critical thinking skills that you get if you are someone that's gone through school and stuff, higher education. And so it's not a judgment. It's just like looking at what would be a green flag for you. if you're, again, in your 30s and you have a higher degree and you
are established in your career, you're going to find more things sync up relationship-wise, finding someone similar. They don't have to be in the same career field or anything, but just, know, they feel a passion for their work, right? They have a purpose. It's really hard to be in relationships with people that don't know what their purpose is or what their passions are, you know?
Jessica Vanrose (23:40.651)
Mm-hmm.
Karen Robinson (23:40.711)
And again, it doesn't make them bad people, but they just may not be the right person for you at this point. So those are some green flags. And I think to be healthy too another green flag is someone that's either not a drinker or someone that socially sparingly drinks. Same with drug use, know, sparingly. Well, when I say sparingly, I'm talking about like
Jessica Vanrose (23:46.624)
Right.
Karen Robinson (24:09.821)
the more socially acceptable drugs like marijuana or something occasional. But for the most part, healthy partners tend not to be dependent on substances, right? Or have a gambling problem. So think, addiction can be huge issues in relationships. How people save or spend money can be, so.
Jessica Vanrose (24:23.939)
Right.
Jessica Vanrose (24:34.232)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Karen Robinson (24:35.517)
I know I'm not answering very succinctly, but it's really hard. really depends on the person and where they are in their own development.
Jessica Vanrose (24:41.694)
Yeah, totally. I understand. But I think what I'm taking from this is that kind of tying back to what you were saying before, is that we're looking for somebody who's compatible with us. And the way that we're going to be able to find that is by making our list of like, what are the things that you, your deal breakers, that's what I call them. What are my deal breakers, the things that I cannot do.
and have that list and that can be your red flags which can always grow or
Karen Robinson (25:13.947)
But there's some basic things for the red flag list that's easier to answer. Like you never want to be in relationship with anyone that would hit you ever. Okay, because it tends to get worse from there. You never want to be in a relationship with someone that degrades you emotionally. You know, we're not talking about someone that called you stupid once. We're talking about someone that constantly puts you down. Like that is not going to be okay. So those are huge red flags.
Jessica Vanrose (25:40.918)
Right. Yes, definitely, definitely. maybe we can, if you have some more time, do you have a little bit more time? Yeah, okay. Can we talk about the compatibility a little bit? what, specifically what areas like, because it's not that we have to find somebody who's exactly like us.
but there are key areas in our lives that we should be compatible. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Karen Robinson (26:17.801)
Yes, it's a really important question because opposites, as we know, tend to attract and that can be great. A lot of times we can't marry someone exactly like us because that behavior would drive us crazy. So we get very attracted to people who are different, but then we get very angry because they're different. know, it's remembering we have to accept people as they are if we...
choose to marry them, right, or be in a long-term relationship. So I'm going to say compatibility. They're usually the big ticket things that we learn about, like religion, politics, money.
values, value systems, you knowing what your values are. And it's not that you can't be in relationships with people that have different religions, but is it going to work? Is it going to be super stressful? You know, if both of you have religious families, you both the couple is not religious, that might work. But again, how is the extended family going to be like?
how hard is this going to be on your children? So it's looking at a lot of factors around that. You you really want to be with a partner, in my opinion, that's non-judgmental and accepting, but you also kinda want to feel comfortable in their extended family when possible. And it isn't that relationships that don't work when that doesn't happen, but it means somebody's giving up their family. And that can be kind of rough.
And back in the day, we would also hear a lot of Democrats marrying Republicans. We don't find that being as workable nowadays because it's such division in our country more so lately with politics. So that could cause a lot of strife within family systems. So it just means really taking your time and thinking and reflecting.
Karen Robinson (28:31.709)
before moving on in relationships like that. It doesn't mean that they're no's, but it's like, okay, for the rest of my adult life, do I want to put up with somebody's, I actually, I'm not going to name religions, because it's going to sound like I'm biased, but there's some very conservative religions. You gotta ask yourself, can you be in this system long-term? What is that going to be like for you?
Jessica Vanrose (28:36.493)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (28:59.286)
Yeah, for sure. And I think having those conversations, like have that conversation with your partner, because like you said, maybe they're not super religious, but their family is so like, that's just a conversation that you need to know for yourself, but then have that conversation with that other person as well to see where they stand and how and if you can make that work.
Karen Robinson (29:25.695)
And just other things like, do you like to travel? Like where do you see yourself in retirement? Like again, if one person loves the ocean and the other person loves the mountains, are we going to have two homes and switch back and forth? Or if you can only afford one, what is that going to look like? What is that going to mean? So there's just things to really talk about.
Jessica Vanrose (29:46.496)
Yeah, for sure. Do you have any final pieces of advice or anything while we're wrapping up here?
Karen Robinson (29:54.047)
I don't know when this particular episode will air. Do you know how far out in advance?
Jessica Vanrose (30:01.319)
It's, I think it is the last week of October. Yeah.
Karen Robinson (30:07.327)
Okay, so the third week of October, I'm having a relationship summit, how to heal from relationship wounds. So people listening, it won't be too late. There will be replay packages if you feel like that would be something useful, because it's going to be all types of different healers talking about how they themselves have healed from relationship traumas or how they've helped clients.
And there's people from all different types of walks of life, lots of different suggestions. So I can share that link with your audience if that fits.
Jessica Vanrose (30:43.65)
That would be amazing. Yes. And please, if you can share with our listeners how everybody can reach you and all of the wonderful things that you do.
Karen Robinson (30:54.567)
Yeah, the easiest way to reach me is healthrivedream.com. That's my website. I believe there's a chat button there. Then I'll get the messages for that. Or if you prefer email, it's healthrivedream@gmail.com at gmail.com. answer all of my emails. So you can ask me about the summit or ask me about my podcast. I do a similar podcast. So Jess, I'd like to invite you to come on there. And anyone else that is?
Jessica Vanrose (31:19.862)
I would love that.
Karen Robinson (31:22.973)
ready to share their story on any type of trauma. So thank you.
Jessica Vanrose (31:26.796)
Yeah. Thank you. That's amazing.
