The Impact of Alcohol on Women | Nancy McKay
Episode # 28
Nancy McKay is a Certified Wayfinder Life Coach, Certified Equus Coach Master Facilitator®, and a SHE RECOVERS® Coach. She has been in recovery from alcohol use disorder since March, 2009 and is an ovarian cancer survivor.
She is a passionate advocate for women's empowerment and resilience. With a profound personal journey as a survivor, Nancy brings deep empathy and insight to her work, helping women navigate their paths to transformation and recovery. She specializes in combining the intuitive power of Equus Coaching with practical recovery techniques to inspire and facilitate meaningful change. Her approach is not only about overcoming obstacles but thriving beyond them, making her a sought-after speaker and an inspiring leader in the field of women's wellness and personal growth.
Nancy founded Amazing Outlook Coaching in 2018 and works with women virtually and with the help of horses to uncover the limiting beliefs and behaviors that are keeping them stuck.
You can get her ebook here: Unbridle Your Healing Journey.
“Recovery is a great life.”
Summary
In this episode of Life After Trauma, Jess and Nancy McKay discuss the profound impact of alcohol on personal lives and society. Nancy shares her journey from alcohol use to recovery, emphasizing the importance of community and support. They explore the cultural perceptions of alcohol, the role of women’s communities in healing, and the unique benefits of equine therapy in recovery. The conversation highlights the significance of finding one's truth and the various paths to recovery, encouraging listeners to seek connection and understanding in their healing journeys.
Takeaways
Nancy's journey with alcohol began in high school to fit in.
A pivotal moment in Nancy's life was her father's suicide, which escalated her drinking.
Community support, like SheRecovers, is vital for recovery.
Women’s communities can empower and change lives.
You don't need alcohol to be accepted in social settings.
Cultural norms often promote alcohol as a coping mechanism.
Alcohol can diminish both pain and joy in life.
Finding your truth is essential in the recovery process.
Horses can provide unique insights and healing in therapy.
Recovery is a journey best taken with support and understanding.
“You’re not in the boat by yourself.”
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Healing Journeys
00:55 Nancy's Journey with Alcohol
03:16 The Role of Community in Recovery
06:26 Empowerment Through Self-Acceptance
07:49 Navigating Social Life Without Alcohol
15:01 Cultural Perspectives on Alcohol Consumption
18:39 The Impact of Alcohol on Society
20:42 Journey to Self-Discovery
23:25 The Impact of Alcohol on Life
24:39 Healing Through Connection with Horses
30:27 Finding Truth Beyond Horses
36:18 Embracing Recovery and Community
Jessica Vanrose (00:01.007)
Welcome or welcome back to Life After Trauma. I'm Jess, your certified trauma informed life coach. If you're new to the podcast, we bring women from around the world together through conversations that will empower, support and inspire you on your healing journey. This week we have Nancy McKay, a certified Wayfinder life coach, certified Equus coach master facilitator, and a SheCovers coach. She recovers coach.
She has been in recovery from alcohol use disorder since May, since March 2009 and is an ovarian cancer survivor. Today, Nancy and I are going to be speaking about alcohol, our relationship with alcohol and the impact on our lives, as well as the culture of alcohol overall. Hi, Nancy, thank you for being here today.
Nancy McKay (00:57.068)
Thank you, Jess. It's great to be here with you.
Jessica Vanrose (01:00.647)
Can you tell us about your journey with alcohol and the breaking point you reached when you decided it was time to change?
Nancy McKay (01:12.086)
Yes, I can. So I started drinking in high school with all of my friends. we were, you know, this was in the mid 70s and I started drinking to fit in quite honestly and it helped, you know, it kind of greased the wheels so to speak and so, you know, my...
my social life was kind of centered around that. so, you know, life goes on, I got older and so on and so forth. And by the time I was in my 30s, I was probably drinking too much, but not an alarming amount. My 40s,
Jessica Vanrose (02:08.519)
you
Nancy McKay (02:10.572)
you know, that started ramping up more. And then when I was 50, my father died by suicide. And that really kicked my drinking into high gear. I had standards, though. So I never drank in the morning. But, you know, I really looked forward to the weekends because then you could go to brunch and
start drinking earlier, right? But that was one thing that I had not gotten to yet. There were a lot of yet's for me. I never got a DUI and I never drank in the morning and so on and so forth. I never got fired, but I was my own boss, so.
Jessica Vanrose (02:50.843)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (03:05.207)
Yeah, okay.
Nancy McKay (03:06.198)
I probably should have been. I made mistakes on the job. So that kicked my drinking into high gear. And then on Friday the 13th of March, 2009, I tried to take my own life. And so that's what scared me sober. I realized that I couldn't drink safely anymore.
Nancy McKay (03:36.398)
I called my neighbor who was in recovery and she took me to my first 12 step meeting and I was absolutely devastated that I had to do that, that it had come to that. And they saved my life. You know, it was the best thing I could have done. And that worked for a long time. That worked for, you know, like 11 years.
Jessica Vanrose (04:05.041)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy McKay (04:05.91)
And then when the pandemic hit, know, things got a little wonky as far as, you know, just community goes. And so it wasn't until, just a couple of years ago, really, that I found SheRecovers and just fell in love with that community and became a SheRecovers coach and
now I'm, you know, facilitating online gatherings for them and I have a, I facilitate a sharing circle here in Denver and I co-facilitate retreats and you know, it's just, it's fabulous. The community is really wonderful. So yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (04:54.715)
That's amazing. Your your three different certifications, the Wayfinder, the Equus and the She Recovers. I have not heard of any of those. Could you give us like just a quick breakdown of what they are?
Nancy McKay (05:04.462)
you
Nancy McKay (05:10.808)
Sure, so the Wayfinder Life Coach was founded and started by Martha Beck, who is a PhD, Harvard-trained PhD. And she is kind of like one of the first life coaches out there. If you're familiar with her work, she's really quite something. I just.
love her and her work and her writing. And so I got that certification. I started with her in 2018. And then through her program, I met some of her instructors are also Equus coach instructors. And so I got involved in that program because I experienced a workshop and I had done a retreat with
through a different coaching platform basically. And I just knew I had to learn how to work with horses. And so I got certified as an Equus coach and then got my master facilitator certification also through them. And then SheRecovers is a nonprofit. They're US based. They also have a Canadian foundation as well.
And their philosophy is we're all recovering from something. And I so believe that because not only am I recovering from alcohol abuse, but also ovarian cancer and grief and childhood trauma and depression and all the things. And so no matter what you're recovering from, you have a home there.
Jessica Vanrose (06:45.029)
Hmm.
Nancy McKay (07:07.34)
You know, if you're a woman or identify with women's communities, that's a wonderful place for you to land. And that's why I love it so much is because it's just so heartwarming. And, you know, you can find your people there. It's just, I love it.
Jessica Vanrose (07:31.045)
Yeah, that does sound really amazing. I love finding communities of women who have similar experiences and similar mindsets and it really is a game changer.
Nancy McKay (07:47.518)
absolutely. I don't know what I would do without those communities. know, the SheRecovers community, my herd mates, know, all my horse people that I, you know, trained with and work with. And I, you know, I really don't know. And plus all the wonderful coaches and colleagues that I have in my work. It's just...
It's something that I depend on. women's communities are going to change the world. I'm just convinced of it.
Jessica Vanrose (08:22.983)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (08:30.691)
Yes, I completely agree. So a deeper question. If you could go back to your younger self that was abusing alcohol, you know, for whatever reason, what would you want her to know?
Nancy McKay (08:37.485)
Yes.
Nancy McKay (08:41.966)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy McKay (08:55.342)
really basically is that you don't have to do this to be accepted that, you know, in your heart, what's true for you. And it's not this. and I, I was, you know, I, I was seeking, I was looking and I knew there was a different way to live.
I was just too afraid to try. you know, so knowing that I'm enough just the way I am without pouring alcohol all over it, you know, just is huge. And I wish that I, you know, had known that. And I also wish I had a voice when I was younger. I let my voice be silenced and I wish I had not done that.
Jessica Vanrose (09:38.747)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (09:53.059)
Yeah, haven't we all been through that? Yes, yes. That is a hard one of learning to speak up and stand up for yourself. Yeah.
Nancy McKay (10:07.796)
Okay. Yeah, have your own back.
Jessica Vanrose (10:13.613)
Yeah, exactly. I'm going to skip ahead a little bit here because I feel like I have another question here that might fit better. I'm just trying to find it back. here. Since alcohol is such a big part of Western culture, what do you recommend for those who may want to go sober or
reduce their alcohol intake while still maintaining a social life.
Nancy McKay (10:52.94)
That's a really great question. And what I want to say is that.
Nancy McKay (11:00.686)
You know, basically what I would tell my younger self is you don't have to drink in order to be accepted. And if you feel like you have to do that in order to be accepted, you're hanging with the wrong people. You know, it's just, alcohol is so prevalent in our culture. And, you know, we're so
Jessica Vanrose (11:15.783)
Nancy McKay (11:27.542)
convinced and we're so marketed to that we're not having a good time unless we have a cocktail in our hands or you know, we can't cope with anything without a cocktail and You know when when you feel great you need to drink and when you feel rotten you need to numb and all of this is brainwashing right and so
What I would like to offer is that.
when you're living your life.
in integrity and and When you're true to yourself, you don't there's not a need to drink, you know because You know most of us Or I guess I should say most people probably drink for the flavor first I'm not sure I this is this is
coming off the top of my head because that's the way I drank. liked, you know, I was a Chardonnay girl and I drank for the taste of it. And yes, that first sip gave you that sense of relaxation and, know, but after that, I really didn't care for the feeling of being intoxicated. didn't like
Jessica Vanrose (12:43.111)
Thank
Nancy McKay (13:04.628)
slurring my words and stumbling around. But what happened was that, you know, once I started drinking, then that phenomenon of craving kicked in. And once that happened, then I continued drinking, right? It wasn't easy to stop at one or two, right? And so for me, though, it was all about the flavor. You know, I
I said when I was still drinking, if I could find a decent alcohol-free wine, I would drink it. And I still, I'm 15 years sober and I still haven't found a great non-alcoholic wine. So the search goes on. So I think it's about being in tune with yourself.
listening to your intuition and knowing that
You know, if you're drinking to fit in, you need to find other people. You know, it's just, you know, and it's so easy to get caught up in the routine of it. And it's an addictive substance no matter how you cut it. You know, you can't consume an addictive substance without becoming
Jessica Vanrose (14:13.968)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (14:28.315)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (14:32.615)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy McKay (14:40.15)
addicted to some degree. You know, I'm not saying that everybody turns into a raging alcoholic, but you know, there's that dependency that you become used to, you know, that wine every night when you get home from work and whatever it is, it's just, it becomes a dependency. And so.
Jessica Vanrose (14:42.427)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (15:01.735)
Yeah. So my, my journey with alcohol, I didn't start drinking until I was like of legal age. I was very much like, no, it's illegal. I'm not doing this. And then, yeah. And then I, in like my early 20s, I did
Nancy McKay (15:16.451)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy McKay (15:21.954)
That's impressive.
Jessica Vanrose (15:31.257)
I did go out a lot and had a good time and honestly I have I don't have regrets about that but it got to a point where it wasn't so much my social life it was actually for me it was not being very miserable in my life and it was specifically
Nancy McKay (15:38.542)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (15:59.811)
my job that I had at the time. It was very stressful, long hours and on top of all of that, I hated it. And I would come home at night and it started out with one glass of wine after work just to like, you know, let me me let go of the day. And then it turned into having half a bottle.
every night and I was probably having like three bottles a week. And it was like, this is yeah, like this has become a problem. And so thankfully, I noticed it. And it was, I wasn't so addicted that I could not stop it myself. So
Nancy McKay (16:41.187)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy McKay (16:54.38)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (16:55.083)
I just went like cold turkey. stopped drinking for, I'm not sure how long, like a month, a few months, I don't remember. And then at the end of that time, I had kind of broken that habit. And I wasn't really like itching to get back to alcohol. And I think since that point,
Nancy McKay (17:12.706)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (17:24.569)
my relationship with alcohol has been a much healthier relationship. Yeah, so I also wanted to say that as far as like the social life aspect of it, a big part of going out and drinking for me was that
Nancy McKay (17:31.116)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (17:53.303)
I didn't have, it wasn't so much that I felt the pressure to, like there is pressure to, but it wasn't so much that that was getting to me. It was more that I didn't have the confidence in myself and I think knowing like my worth and that the alcohol
Nancy McKay (18:01.101)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (18:22.755)
just kind of, I'm a very outgoing person without it. But then when you add the alcohol to it, it just goes to another level. And when you're out, it was like, it felt like, I don't know, I don't know fully how to explain it. But like, it just boosted me. And yeah, yeah.
Nancy McKay (18:31.916)
Right.
Nancy McKay (18:42.05)
Right. I get it. That's the way I was. mean, I was, you know, I loved to go out and be at the bar with my friends. And it was community there. Right. And so, so that, you know, it felt like living and, you know, having fun and, and, you know, all the fun things. Right. And then, you know, there's a saying, you know, it was fun until it wasn't.
Jessica Vanrose (19:00.305)
Mm-mm. Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (19:11.484)
Yeah.
Nancy McKay (19:11.566)
And, you know, I mean, I was having fun the night that I tried to kill myself and, and it, you know, it turned on a dime for me. And so it, it can, it can, it's sneaky. And it can, it can grab you when you least expect it. And
Jessica Vanrose (19:23.121)
Yeah.
Nancy McKay (19:40.662)
You know, so it's just something that I think folks need to be aware of and.
Nancy McKay (19:48.95)
you know, not...
Nancy McKay (19:53.998)
take it as lightly as I know I did. I think there's an opportunity to be aware and you know, people are so much more health conscious now than they were, you know, years ago. it, so I find it so interesting that, you know, people are really concerned about, you know, a lot of what they're eating or what they're doing.
Jessica Vanrose (19:58.279)
Mm.
Nancy McKay (20:23.918)
and yet they're drinking poison and, you know, that tastes good, but, you know, alcohol is alcohol and, you know, it's...
it's not good for us really no matter how you slice it so
Jessica Vanrose (20:42.704)
Yeah.
I want to go back to one of your previous comments. You mentioned that like, we're kind of being brainwashed into believing that in some form, we need this. Why do you think that that has come around? Like, that's, that's what I don't understand. Like, how or why do you think that this became such a big
Nancy McKay (20:54.243)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy McKay (20:58.712)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (21:14.737)
part of our culture.
Nancy McKay (21:18.2)
Well, there's a brilliant book out by Holly Whitaker called Quit Like a Woman. And in that book, she talks about how big alcohol is like big tobacco. They used the marketing.
Jessica Vanrose (21:33.765)
Hmm.
Nancy McKay (21:40.47)
and they still do, you know, they're currently using the same type of.
marketing and propaganda that that big tobacco used, you know, years and years and years ago, you know, when I think it was probably like during World War One. People were convinced that smoking was good for you. You know, it was it reduced your blood pressure and it made you relax and that that, you know, all the things. And so they
really hammered home that smoking was not only acceptable, but really something that all the cool kids were doing, right? And it wasn't until, I know I was probably in middle school or something when the Surgeon General came out and they slapped that warning on the side of cigarette packs saying that,
this could cause cancer. there's a big correlation between alcohol and cancer, breast cancer especially with women. So it doesn't come without risks. And it just is really interesting to see how the marketing of all of it.
you know, came about and now, you know, kind of get on my soap box here, but you know, you go into a store and even like a hallmark store, right? And you'll see the, you know, like baby gifts, you know, like a onesie that has a glass of wine on it, you know, and says, you know,
Jessica Vanrose (23:39.185)
Yeah.
Nancy McKay (23:45.674)
It's like mommy juice and all the things, know, are just, you know, if you had me, you'd drink too sort of thing. you know, talking about how difficult it is for moms and, you know, it is not unusual for half the moms at the soccer field having wine in their go cup and or vodka.
Jessica Vanrose (23:59.621)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (24:11.857)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Nancy McKay (24:14.892)
you know, and you know, don't drink mommy's cup. That's, know, it's really unfortunate. And, you know, I know a lot of women who have been in that boat and it's hard, you know, it's really, really hard. And, you know, it's a huge challenge.
Jessica Vanrose (24:20.507)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (24:32.154)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (24:39.569)
So yeah, so with all of this in mind, how do you think that this culture of alcohol has impacted our society in like a larger scale?
Nancy McKay (24:46.211)
You
Nancy McKay (25:02.616)
Well...
Boy, that's a really good question. I think that...
Nancy McKay (25:13.484)
when you have a large population of the people on the planet who are consuming alcohol in order to cope with their life.
Nancy McKay (25:30.3)
then.
You know, there's a huge opportunity to take a look at why. You know, what are you escaping from?
Nancy McKay (25:49.1)
You know, it'd be one thing if the world were full of just the normal social drinker where, you know, they'd have one glass of wine with dinner and that was it. You know, that's one thing. You know, we have, you know, an epidemic of people who are consuming alcohol because they need to forget about their day.
Jessica Vanrose (26:01.895)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy McKay (26:18.284)
they need to brace themselves up, whatever it is, it's a coping tool and it's really unfortunate because you're not showing up.
Jessica Vanrose (26:25.159)
Thank
Jessica Vanrose (26:34.971)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy McKay (26:36.494)
100 % you know you're you're not showing up as your true self you're cloaking everything in a in a veil of Like insulation right so that you don't feel all the things you know you don't feel all the pain Right, but you also don't feel all the good stuff You know it it diminishes your joy
Jessica Vanrose (26:53.479)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (27:01.767)
Yeah.
Nancy McKay (27:05.886)
It might diminish your pain, but it really diminishes the joy. And, you know, it's just so unfortunate because it doesn't have to be that way, you know? And it's just, it's so easy to get caught up in it, is the problem.
Jessica Vanrose (27:18.349)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (27:23.686)
It's
Jessica Vanrose (27:27.235)
Yeah, it's like people don't feel like they are enough or like their life isn't enough and instead of doing the hard work because it is hard work to go inward and to deal with your emotions.
we drink instead because that's the easier way out. Like, let's just numb this for the time being. I can get through it then.
Nancy McKay (27:56.941)
Right?
Nancy McKay (28:03.854)
Absolutely. I'll think about it tomorrow. I'll think about it next week. You know, I used to, I remember vividly sitting on my patio drinking Chardonnay and reading the Four Agreements. You know, so I was in seeker mode, right? But I still had to have that buffer between me and discovering what was really underneath all of it.
I couldn't do it without having that buffer. I knew there was something. I knew that, and I had an inkling that if I didn't drink that I'd find it, but I wasn't brave enough to do it. And so for me, when I...
Jessica Vanrose (28:37.115)
Mm.
Jessica Vanrose (28:41.297)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (28:53.383)
Yeah.
Nancy McKay (29:00.49)
attempted suicide it was a You know, I call it I was standing at the at the intersection of desperation and grace because it was It was so important that I Get it, you know, and it took something like that to snap me out of it and
Jessica Vanrose (29:29.723)
Yeah.
Nancy McKay (29:31.286)
You know, I have the, you know, I, the willpower of a gnat, you know, is, I haven't done anything for 15 and a half years except stay married to my wonderful husband. But, you know,
So it's, I know that this is my truth because I don't have to think about it much. When I got cancer, it never occurred to me to drink.
Jessica Vanrose (29:52.839)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (29:57.818)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (30:03.205)
Yeah.
Nancy McKay (30:05.482)
And even today, I didn't drink.
Jessica Vanrose (30:08.007)
Mm Yeah. Yeah. So this episode is going to be coming out in a couple weeks. But for for anybody who's watching today, the day we're recording is November 6th the day after the election.
So yes, yes, and I think there are a lot of people feeling that way. Yeah.
Nancy McKay (30:29.036)
Yeah, tough day.
Nancy McKay (30:38.156)
Yeah, yeah. And here's the thing, you don't have to drink over it. It's not going to make it any different. It's not going to change the outcome. It's not going to, it's going to help you cope with it for a moment and then it's going to make it worse. there's nothing that pouring alcohol over is going to improve.
Jessica Vanrose (31:08.284)
Yeah.
Nancy McKay (31:09.674)
It just isn't.
Jessica Vanrose (31:11.547)
Yeah. And if you want to make a difference in your community, exactly. Like, we need you sober. We need you present. Yeah.
Nancy McKay (31:17.686)
Yeah, you can't do it drunk.
Nancy McKay (31:24.374)
Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. You've got to have your wits about you. so, you can't be true to yourself if you're not of clear mind. Right. And, you know, so.
Jessica Vanrose (31:28.529)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (31:47.109)
Yeah. Yeah. I want to.
Nancy McKay (31:50.182)
I I think it's great if you can drink normally and have a drink and call it a day, call it good. That's great. But there's not a whole lot of people who can do that.
Jessica Vanrose (32:00.646)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (32:06.663)
Yeah, I was just going to say I want to make sure that anybody watching or listening knows that this is not coming from a place of judgment. Like, not at all. Not at all.
Nancy McKay (32:15.366)
absolutely not. Absolutely not. No, I just yeah, and I know that I I can sound that way. But it's out of out of love and compassion that people understand that.
that this is something that they don't have to do. And if it works for you, that's wonderful. But if it doesn't, there's a different way. And there's a lot of different ways. There's traditional recovery ways, and there's non-traditional recovery ways. And so the thing that I find that's so wonderful about
Jessica Vanrose (32:56.133)
Yeah.
Nancy McKay (33:13.012)
anything is the community that you find with like-minded and like-hearted people. It's just, it's hell of a lot more fun.
Jessica Vanrose (33:15.217)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (33:20.453)
Definitely. Yes. Can you tell us about the horses? Like, I just think that this is so amazing. Like, why does interacting with horses help with recovery?
Nancy McKay (33:27.778)
Yes.
Nancy McKay (33:32.142)
Thank
Nancy McKay (33:38.368)
well, horses are magic as far as I'm concerned. And I think the reason why they help with recovery is because they don't, well, first of all, horses don't have an agenda. you talk about no judgment. They don't care if you're rich or poor or anything. They don't have any kind of a judgment.
they mirror back what you're putting out into the world. So, for instance, if you're struggling with alcohol and hopefully you're not showing up with me and the horse under the influence, if you're struggling, then the horse will pick up on that energy. And it's not that
Nancy McKay (34:39.136)
It's if you're trying to pretend like you're not struggling that they pick up on, right? So if you're struggling and you own that, right? The horse picks up on that acceptance, that truth.
Jessica Vanrose (34:50.46)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (34:57.959)
Mm.
Nancy McKay (35:00.559)
They will trust you and When they trust you they'll they'll want to connect but if you're pretending like You're fine and
Jessica Vanrose (35:02.704)
Mm.
Nancy McKay (35:18.444)
really, you're really struggling, but you're pretending like you're fine, then the horse picks up on that incongruent energy and they won't connect because they don't trust you. So they will be, you know, as far away from you as they can be because they don't feel safe. And it's a matter of survival for them.
Jessica Vanrose (35:22.267)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (35:33.318)
Hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (35:41.638)
Right.
Jessica Vanrose (35:46.246)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy McKay (35:46.358)
because they're herd animals and they're prey animals. so they have to, they're very aware of their surroundings and when they feel safe, that's one thing, but if they don't, they can't be convinced to connect with you if they don't feel safe. And so that's why it's so great.
Jessica Vanrose (36:05.883)
Yeah.
Nancy McKay (36:14.7)
to work with horses is because as the coach, then I can see what the feedback is from the horse. And I have a better idea of what's happening with my client because of how the horse is acting. And so I know when I need to dig deeper and when I need to ask a different question or when I need to just stop talking and take a step back and let my...
Jessica Vanrose (36:22.651)
Mm.
Jessica Vanrose (36:27.59)
Yeah.
Nancy McKay (36:43.864)
client.
come to their own conclusion and see if they can land on their truth. Because what they do, they will relax and then the horse will relax and feel safe. And it's just a, it's one of those things that you feel as you're working with a horse, you feel it.
in it on a cellular level, you know, it's very visceral and it's something that is just.
Jessica Vanrose (37:16.721)
Mm.
Nancy McKay (37:23.796)
It's so magical. It's just so.
Nancy McKay (37:31.167)
It's so powerful. And so, you know, I encourage your audience if you have an opportunity to do any kind of equine assisted coaching or, you know, therapy or anything, do it because it's, it's so powerful and it's so effective.
Jessica Vanrose (37:49.319)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (37:57.787)
That's... Yeah, I mean, that sounds incredible. And I have not experienced this, but from the way you're explaining it, it does sound like it would be a very moving moment because like the horse is... I feel like the horse represents like this innocence. Like, like you said, the no agenda, like...
Nancy McKay (37:57.862)
It's just magic.
Jessica Vanrose (38:27.597)
It's just this innocence and nature and it's like we're fighting that nature within us and so when we can finally come to terms with it then you're able to connect and that just sounds so beautiful.
Nancy McKay (38:38.776)
Right?
Nancy McKay (38:49.707)
Absolutely.
Nancy McKay (38:53.602)
Yeah, yeah, it is. It's just it's it's really powerful. And I just got to experience last week, I was in Arizona for a herd gathering our our herd gathering and we were in meditation and this wonderful horse Bernadette Bernie for short, walked up to me during meditation and stood
Jessica Vanrose (38:59.313)
Yeah.
Nancy McKay (39:22.272)
right in front of me for about 10 or 15 minutes and didn't budge. mean, just, she just stood right there. And I'll tell you what, I mean, get chills just thinking about it. Talk about magic. You know, she was, she knew that I needed her because I was having a tough day.
Jessica Vanrose (39:39.163)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (39:48.283)
Wow.
Nancy McKay (39:49.229)
and she just came and stood right there.
Jessica Vanrose (39:53.105)
That's amazing.
Nancy McKay (39:54.242)
Yeah. Yeah, it was it was magic. It was just magic.
Jessica Vanrose (39:58.937)
Yeah. So for those who don't have access to horses, whether by financial means or physical access or anything like that, is there an alternative option? I mean, I know there are other ways of recovery. Maybe you can touch on those a little bit.
Nancy McKay (40:05.549)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy McKay (40:11.459)
Mm-hmm.
Nancy McKay (40:20.086)
Yeah, well, I work with my clients either on Zoom, if they're not here in Denver. And, you know, that I love that, you know, if unless we can work with a horse, this is the next best thing. And so I love, you know, meeting with people all from all over the world. You know, it's it's really easy to do and and
you know, I still feel like we have a good connection and you know, it, it feels, it feels.
really, it still feels powerful to me, you know, even if there's not a horse involved. you know, and so, you know, and all the coaching I do is, is very custom, you know, for, for the client, it's just what whatever the, the client needs in the moment. And, you know, so I just, you know, I
fall back on my experience with it and, you know, help people find their truth.
Jessica Vanrose (41:37.083)
Yeah. Well, and I mean, that's that that in itself is huge. Like, just finding your truth that I feel like that can be a life journey right there. Yeah.
Nancy McKay (41:50.028)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it took me a long time. Took me a long time to find it. So, yeah, I feel very lucky that I did.
Jessica Vanrose (41:54.171)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (41:58.801)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (42:03.845)
Yeah, I love everything that you're saying. Like when you mentioned previously that like being in your integrity helps to limit or like it eliminates that feeling of needing to drink. And I can completely agree with that because I feel like that's for me, that's when I
Nancy McKay (42:23.043)
Right?
Jessica Vanrose (42:32.883)
really was able to, I mean, I did go through a phase of not drinking at all. I do still drink now, but it's just socially and like I mentioned before, it's a much healthier relationship with it. And I didn't come to that place until I really like, yeah, found my truth.
Nancy McKay (42:58.418)
Yeah, and examined your relationship and that's what it's all about really is it's Looking at your relationship with alcohol just like it is with anything, right? You know your partner or your job or whatever, you know, we have these relationships with things and and You know if you can look at it like How are you alcohol
affecting me? you know, how do I show up when you and I are in in relationship, you know, how do I how do I manage how do I how do I feel the next day, you know, am I full of regret or shame or anxiety?
Jessica Vanrose (43:28.721)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (43:42.619)
Yeah.
Nancy McKay (43:50.73)
Am I exhausted because I don't sleep because the alcohol prevents me from sleeping well? You know, it's just, it's a, you know, it's a myriad of things that can affect you in different ways. you know, so if it's a healthy relationship, great. But if it's not, there's a different way. And it's not so bad, you know, it's great on this side of it. It really is.
Jessica Vanrose (44:14.619)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (44:19.191)
It is. Yeah, it totally is. Like, when I was going to say previously, it's also like, do you like the person that you are when alcohol is involved? But there have been many, many times where I have gone out with friends to a bar and had zero alcohol, just, you know, because I didn't feel like drinking that night or whatever. And
Nancy McKay (44:20.078)
you
Nancy McKay (44:30.122)
Exactly. Right.
Nancy McKay (44:46.574)
Mm-hmm.
Jessica Vanrose (44:49.101)
I can still have a good time without it. yeah. And I think, like I had mentioned previously, I think that part comes back to having that confidence in yourself, which ties in also to that confidence comes along with knowing yourself. Yeah.
Nancy McKay (44:52.12)
Ready?
Nancy McKay (45:09.228)
Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, and I used to think, well, I'll never have fun again. You know, that's it. I've used up all my fun tickets, you know, and that's not true. You know, so I'm here to tell you that you still can have fun and, you know, it's never too late.
Jessica Vanrose (45:20.379)
Yeah.
No.
Jessica Vanrose (45:30.66)
No. And in fact, if I am being completely honest, I usually have more fun when I'm not drinking because even at the bar, because I like I can just be myself. I don't have to like worry about like, my God, do I sound really drunk? Like, did I just come across like an idiot because I'm slurring?
Nancy McKay (45:39.693)
Right.
Nancy McKay (45:47.683)
Right.
Nancy McKay (45:54.85)
Yeah.
Jessica Vanrose (46:00.423)
or whatever. And also, I get to wake up the next morning and have a normal day.
Nancy McKay (46:02.414)
Right.
Nancy McKay (46:10.146)
Right. Feel good and not worry about, did I say anything? Did I do anything stupid last night? know, God, do I owe anybody an apology?
Jessica Vanrose (46:17.741)
Yeah, I remember exactly I remember going through that phase. Again, this was mostly in my early 20s. But like in the morning, the first thing I would do is open up my Snapchat and go through all of my stories that I posted being like what happened last night and what do I need to do I need to delete anything like yeah. Yeah.
Nancy McKay (46:36.494)
Bye.
Nancy McKay (46:41.198)
What's that?
Nancy McKay (46:45.14)
yeah, well, I'm very lucky that social media was not in existence when I was drinking. that wasn't an issue.
Jessica Vanrose (46:56.44)
Yeah, that was always the panic is like, my god, what did I post? Yeah. Yeah. Or who did I message? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So Nancy, do you have any final thoughts or advice for us?
Nancy McKay (47:00.908)
Right. Exactly. Who did I drunk dial?
Nancy McKay (47:19.596)
gosh, know, it's just recovery is a great life. And no matter what it is that you're recovering from, you know, if you can find a community of like-minded and like-hearted women or men, you know, depending on what your community is, but if you can find people who are
You know, on the same path as you, gosh, it's just so much richer. It's so much richer of a life. And I wouldn't trade this for anything. Not for anything. So, you know, don't be afraid. I, know, and I think that that's one of the things that is hard for people is I know.
I didn't have too many role models. Recovery wasn't as talked about as it is now. There's still stigma, but it's becoming less so. If I had known then what I know now, it would have been so much easier.
Jessica Vanrose (48:21.767)
Mm.
Nancy McKay (48:47.368)
And working with a coach is really a great way to go about it. Because they can tap you into all the resources and the communities and all the things. And you get to learn that you're not in the boat by yourself. And I think that's one of the most important things is feeling like
Jessica Vanrose (49:09.723)
Yeah.
Nancy McKay (49:17.174)
you've got someone to depend on and who can walk you through it.
Jessica Vanrose (49:25.541)
Yeah, definitely. Like you're not alone in the journey and yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, thank you so much for being here and for sharing all of this. Yeah, of course.
Nancy McKay (49:26.392)
So.
Right, right.
Nancy McKay (49:37.539)
you're so welcome. Thank you for having me.
